Sports journalist Alexey Matveyev spoke with him - especially for VChK-OGPU and Rucriminal.info.
SECOND-RATE BRAZILIANS
- How do you like the current Spartak, are there any prospects? And how will the protracted saga with striker Sobolev be resolved, in your opinion?
- And who is Sobolev, who is being so fussed about now? Frankly speaking, I hardly watch the Russian championship. Well, it's depressing, gloomy. I only learn the results of matches on the news, nothing more.
I have a "plate", I watch all of Europe, Latin American championships, including Brazil. The Brazilians there are a couple of goals stronger than those who come to Russia. Those who come here are the ones who are not needed by anyone there. They pick up the "leftovers" from the "table" that is rich in personnel. I repeat, this is a low level.
I watch the entire Brazilian championship on the "plate". Sometimes I think, high class, the level is almost cosmic - in working with the ball, tactics too. These guys do not come to us, and I think they never will, they join the best teams in Europe. We have, so to speak, "waste material" - those who are almost not needed in Brazil. Such is the reality.
"Spartak"? Demonstrates episodically a good level, by the standards of the Russian championship. Yes, it simply takes time. In Russia, so far, there is only one undisputed leader - "Zenit". Previously, it was "Spartak", now it is Peter. If the "red-whites" stabilize the game, they will be able to compete with anyone. There is nothing special about this "Zenit". Here, in addition to the ability to play, healthy ambitions are also needed. If my teammates have them, they can easily fight for the championship. And there is no need to get ready for the matches with the same St. Petersburg. The St. Petersburgers themselves are a strong irritant, as is Spartak for them (the conversation took place on the eve of the game in St. Petersburg between Zenit and Spartak - A.M.).
I would not say that Spartak players are playing very attractively now, but they are achieving results. True, the level of the opponents they beat is, well, below any criticism, do not blame them. How can you progress in skill in such conditions? Almost no way, to be honest.
- Well, so this is a dead end. Do you think there is at least some way out of it?
- The recipe seems simple, but no one resorts to it. We need to put more and more of our guys in the team. The foreigners who come here have only one goal: to "make money", that's all. And our young "stars" are sitting in the deep reserves, there is no development. There will be no growth of domestic football in general, is it not clear?!
But momentary success for the management of almost all domestic teams is much more important than the progress of their own football personnel. It's just pathetic! Who else will say this except for me, and perhaps a few of my like-minded people who are not indifferent to solving the problems of our football.
And again, our masters. Where should they go after finishing football school? The places in the teams are occupied by gray foreigners, including the aforementioned Brazilians. Here I have not said anything new, super-scandalous, I am stating a fact. This is a tragedy of football, without any exaggeration. Well, then close your football!
- In your opinion, does the national team also have a hopeless present and future?
- What else? This is a complete disaster! We play with Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and the like. What can we learn here, how can we progress? No way, we must admit it honestly. Okay, let's take the club level.
I already said, I watch the Brazilian championship. I can't imagine that the same Zenit or Spartak would worthily resist the leaders - Palmeiras, Atletico Mineiro, where the former player of the St. Petersburg team Hulk now plays. Well, this is a level unattainable for our clubs, you understand? Not an emotional, but a very real, down-to-earth assessment. That's how things are.
What kind of mentality do our club managers, all sorts of scouts, agents, and others have? Oh, a Brazilian, and is he available? We'll take him! They often don't even look at the level. That's it, we've "sunk" with such a mentality. And hopeless grayness reigns in our championship.
MUD IN FOOTBALL ON ALL FLOORS
- Is it true that in the USSR the football championship was literally wallowing in mud up to its ears, and no one did anything to somehow get out of this swamp? "Fixed" matches flourished, referees were bribed en masse, players and coaches played the role of clowns?
- Well, Moscow clubs were less involved. They fought each other heartily, as a rule. Our capital friends-rivals could "give" points without a fight to anyone, but not to "Spartak", so the unspoken relationship developed. To put it mildly, our rivals did not like us.
Here, all Ukrainian teams, without exception, "worked" for Kiev "Dynamo", such was the directive even from the republican Central Committee of the party. Tournament points were "supplied" to the Kievans without a fight, if only the flagship of Ukraine became the champion of the USSR. People simply played "giveaway", imitating a fight on the football field. But you can't fool the spectators, the most advanced of them saw perfectly well what was happening. Quite often, disapproving roars and whistles to the standsnah during such "spectacles" covered ears...
- Spartak players remained sterile in such impassable mud? Were they not bought and sold, did they not take bribes for the "right" result of this or that match?
- Sometimes they tried to bribe me, my Spartak teammates. "Brothers" once brought a suitcase of money the day before a game. Like, don't score against our guys, the team desperately needs points. They tried to foist off a suitcase of "crunchies". I tell them: "How do you imagine this? That I would shoot somewhere into the "heavens" from a killer position? Or to the side? "Something like that," they answer. Then I explained to them in simple terms that our boss, the legendary Nikolai Petrovich Starostin, could die of grief, looking at the "giveaway game", I can't allow this. The businessmen turned around and left with the damned suitcase of money.
WITH THE DEATH OF CHERENKOV, HALF OF THE HEART IS GONE…
Sports journalist Alexey Matveyev continues his conversation with the legendary Spartak midfielder Yuri Gavrilov – on the sensitive topic of football, human relations, his failing health…
- Not only me, but also my Spartak teammates, Yura Reznik, for example, were approached with “left” money. Yura simply told them: “Guys, go away, goodbye.” That was the atmosphere in the Spartak team at that time.
- And how are things now with “undercover” games in the Russian championship? Do you notice it?
- Maybe the current “shadow” football players do it more skillfully, unlike the “craftsmen” in the Soviet championship. I don’t always catch where they play honestly, where not so much. And the "left" money, unlike the Soviet championship, is definitely not carried in suitcases, but transferred to bank cards and accounts, right?
Although the essence is the same: bribery of officials, in this case, football players, coaches, possibly club staff, officials around football. But we have never heard of arrests, especially trials, "imprisonments", right? We live - by inertia, alas, we do not change anything for the better.
- Let's talk a little about the bright side, otherwise there is almost only darkness. Your tandem with Georgy Yartsev delighted the fans. How did you manage to achieve such amazing teamwork? Did you have eyes in the back of your head when you gave him such amazingly accurate passes? Georgy scored a lot of goals from them. Did you practice in training, specially prepare surprises for opponents for specific matches?
- Yes, you don't need to specially practice anything. Beskov, our coach, found Yartsev in Kostroma, he knew that he could score - often and a lot. A person was needed to play as a support player for the productive forward. Konstantin Ivanovich assigned me to this position. You see, the secret is simple.
My friend, Zhora Yartsev, knew in advance that I would not handle the ball for a long time, I would pass it to him in one touch. He would accelerate two or three meters, break away from the opponents, and then, in one touch, receive the ball from me. That's all. It's a game sense, nothing supernatural. You need to feel your partner, nothing more. So we felt it. Yes, Zhora and I were not the only ones like that. Remember the great tandem Ivanov - Streltsov. Pele liked to interact with Tostao in the national team more, in general, there are plenty of examples. Guardiola is now playing the combination of Haaland and de Bruyne at Manchester City.
- Do you yourself no longer play football, or can you still shake off the old days?
- No, no, I don't play in the Spartak veterans' team, my health doesn't allow it. You could say they pulled me out of the grave after a stroke. A black spot in my lung was found after a medical examination - oncology. In short, I got it.
No problem, I live, I think, fully, I don't lock myself within four walls. I go to see my many friends, to Lyubertsy near Moscow, for example. Bryansk, Kursk, Kaluga are also my routes, I don't lock myself at home. I go to the graves of my Spartak friends. Not necessarily on important dates, my soul just calls me. To come and lay flowers. Lord, they died young - Misha Rusyaev, Vitya Samokhin, Vasya Kulkov... The death of Fedya Cherenkov hit me so hard that my heart aches and aches from bitterness. Recently, we went to see Fedor and Zhora Yartsev with a Spartak company. God willing, half of us are left from that wonderful team: Romantsev, Dasayev, Shavlo, Khidiyatullin, Mirzoyan, Rodionov…
- If we return to the discussion of the problems of Russian football, do you think we can “put out the lights” here, or is there still a spark of hope for the best?
- Well, to be honest, quite frankly, I can’t give you any hope. Imagine, our children are training, preparing for battles. Here, some football businessmen bring all sorts of trash from third-rate Brazilians and other foreigners. They, these “brothers”, are simply stupidly making money this way, and that’s it.
And our home-grown “stars” are out of luck. I can’t watch calmly and put up with this. Ugliness in all its full glory. The temporary workers are running the show…
Source: www.rucriminal.info